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Help with diet for a flexitarian
Hi all,
This is my first post and I am a confused eater. My wife has been a vegetarian for many years, experimented with raw and is now a vegan/macrobiotic. Although I am a meat eater, many of the meals I prepare for my wife and I are strictly vegan. I will get a craving for fish or a good piece of red meat, but really have no cravings for any poultry or pork. I know this is a vegan page and offers a vegan product (I just used the vega meal supplement for the first time this morning) but I was hoping to find some diet advice.
I currently weigh about 215 pounds and am approximately 6'1" I don't feel confident in my body and wish I weighed about 20-30 pounds less and much more tone. What would be a good diet to use, and is using the meal supplements/protein vega shakes a good start? Also, I hate running but being on a limited budget I cannot afford a gym membership or a bike at the moment, any exercise advice?
Thanks for any/all advice.
Tags: diet, exercise, loss, meat, vegan, weight
Views: 48
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dan Donovan on -
Hey just go to youtube and search "crossfit" or "body weight exercises" and they have people doing workouts using your own body weight or weights from stuff around the house. Most of the stuff is short burst plyometric type stuff and not endurance stuff. If you don't like running on pavement you could also try trail running it's move varied and has better scenery.
For diet try using whole foods that haven't been processed of minimally processed, like whole fruits and veggies (most can be eaten raw) and whole grains.
http://whfoods.org/
This site has some interesting recipe idea's, I see you have experimented with raw foods have you looked into the 80/10/10 approach from Dr Graham? I suppose you could modify it some by eating aw fruits during the day and then having a cooked dinner with whole grain foods and cooked/stewed/steamed veggies? I mean unless you are consuming alot of vegan junk foods and refined grain's/beans/separated protein isolates and other chemical concoctions then you should not be having any issues with your weight. Exercise is key, getting outside and reducing your stress levels are also key as well, diet is only a portion of it. All of these things attribute to your health and well being.
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Permalink Reply by Matt G on -
I should be way more active than I am now. But I also know diet plays a big key and if i'm not using the calories they're going somewhere they shouldn't. I don't think I want to go raw. I feel the food choices are very limited and to be honest I don't find them very satisfying.
Thank you for your help. I will look into all of the info you gave me.
-matt
Dan Donovan said:Hey just go to youtube and search "crossfit" or "body weight exercises" and they have people doing workouts using your own body weight or weights from stuff around the house. Most of the stuff is short burst plyometric type stuff and not endurance stuff. If you don't like running on pavement you could also try trail running it's move varied and has better scenery.
For diet try using whole foods that haven't been processed of minimally processed, like whole fruits and veggies (most can be eaten raw) and whole grains.
http://whfoods.org/
This site has some interesting recipe idea's, I see you have experimented with raw foods have you looked into the 80/10/10 approach from Dr Graham? I suppose you could modify it some by eating aw fruits during the day and then having a cooked dinner with whole grain foods and cooked/stewed/steamed veggies? I mean unless you are consuming alot of vegan junk foods and refined grain's/beans/separated protein isolates and other chemical concoctions then you should not be having any issues with your weight. Exercise is key, getting outside and reducing your stress levels are also key as well, diet is only a portion of it. All of these things attribute to your health and well being.
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Permalink Reply by Dan Donovan on
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Ya unfortunately I don't have access to youtube at work so I can't give you specific links =(
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Permalink Reply by darius sohei on
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okay, i'll make this quick so it might feel brusque.
it's okay to eat HIGH QUALITY grass fed or wild game meats. especially the organs and fats.
you can always try being vegan or vegetarian, choosing only high quality foods for a short term cleansing effect. short being relative to your choices and desired results.
a high carbohydrate diet, including unfermented fruits and grains, will eventually destroy you, screw up your hormones and make you feel hungry all the time and rot your teeth. humans weren't designed for abundant high carbs in nature. we need high fat and fat soluble vitamins & minerals, adequate protein, and minimal carbs.
with some research online you can learn why, just avoid weird dogmas and personal ideologies from both sides of the debate and go for the results!
when starting exercise in a weakened physio-chemical state, overtraining is very easy. don't overtrain. rest/recovery/joint mobilization/increased circulation like walking/proper nutrition is 80% of health. functional movement training and strength & conditioning work is the other 20%.
personally, i say don't go into "exercise mode" until you feel great at least 80% of the time from practicing the first category.
good luck and be well!
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Permalink Reply by Dan Donovan on
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I completely disagree on all points, Kenyan marathon runners considered the best in the world consume a diet of 75% carbs 15%fat and 10% Protein. The bulk of their diet comes from cornmeal and sugar they're pretty dang good athletes. They consume meat but very low quantities about 5-10% of their total calories. This is the same with alot of long lived cultures around the world. A high fat high protein diet is absolutely detrimental to our health. All carbon based organism run on glucose from birds to bees to humans we need glucose to fuel our muscles. You can believe all that junk from Mercola all you want but it's false.
If you want to operate in ketosis go for it, you'll find that glucose is a much better energy source and you can and will recover from training much quicker eating more carbs and eating a ton a protein.
If you want to consume meat it's your choice however I would not let it be you primary fuel source and if you do consume it eat it in low quantities.
darius sohei said:okay, i'll make this quick so it might feel brusque.
it's okay to eat HIGH QUALITY grass fed or wild game meats. especially the organs and fats. you can always try being vegan or vegetarian, choosing only high quality foods for a short term cleansing effect. short being relative to your choices and desired results. a high carbohydrate diet, including unfermented fruits and grains, will eventually destroy you, screw up your hormones and make you feel hungry all the time and rot your teeth. humans weren't designed for abundant high carbs in nature. we need high fat and fat soluble vitamins & minerals, adequate protein, and minimal carbs.
with some research online you can learn why, just avoid weird dogmas and personal ideologies from both sides of the debate and go for the results!
when starting exercise in a weakened physio-chemical state, overtraining is very easy. don't overtrain. rest/recovery/joint mobilization/increased circulation like walking/proper nutrition is 80% of health. functional movement training and strength & conditioning work is the other 20%.
personally, i say don't go into "exercise mode" until you feel great at least 80% of the time from practicing the first category.
good luck and be well!
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Permalink Reply by darius sohei on
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most average people in the u.s are eating the same ratios and are obese and insulin/leptin resistant. perhaps if you are a kenyan MARATHON RUNNER and only eat indigenously prepared carbohydrates, then your body can process all that sugar without having chemical and emotional freakouts.
and yes, using muscle meats as your primary fuel source is wrong-headed. it's the fats that are the fuel - hence organ meats. the body preferentially chooses sugar over fat if you have it because sugar was so rare back in the day. now that sugar is commonly available, our genetic craving goes unchecked.
drop a person or a group of people into a wilderness area and see how long they can hold onto veganism or vegetarianism. oh sure, long term they can mal-adapt their environment agriculturally, but short term? as in, how are we going to gain enough calories to survive the day/week/month?
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Permalink Reply by Jay Crawford on -
Darius,
Drop people into the wilderness and see if they live to 105 years old??? Back when we were hunter/gatherers we would live on available food sources. When the season provided vegetation to eat we wouldn't bother expending the energy to hunt but when the season changed we needed to hunt, so spent periods of carnivorism. Life expectancy then was 30ish.
Human evolution has found us using agriculture to provide plants for food and our life expectancy has risen along with. The North American obesity epidemic is atributed to a diet mainly of heavily refined sugars and animal fats. NEVER has a study linked obesity with eatting too much vegetables and fruit!
FACT: Long straight saturated fatty acids harden arteries...PERIOD!
FACT: Cellular fuel is glucose...Period! Look up the Krebs cycle and you'll see it DOES NOT take place with fat! To convert long straight chains of saturated fatty acids (animal fats) into fuel, leaves behind the most amount of free radicals of any food we can ingest...Period! Your high animal fat and low carb diet leaves you with little antioxidants to cope with the high amount of very toxic free radicals left behind from metabolizing animal fats. That spells only one result CANCER! Heart disease or cancer? which is it for you?
FACT: With the exception of a few micro-organisms that can derive energy from sulphur at the bottom of the ocean, ALL living things derive their energy from the sun!
When designing a high performance engine, the prime concern is getting the most energy from hydrocarbon combustion; wasted energy is lost power!
As A living machine that derives power from hydrocarbon 'combustion', would it not make sense then to cut out the middle animal and get our fuel from the source that converts solar energy into ANIMAL FUEL! Eatting animals represents a huge loss in energy before fuel is then delivered to the next animal. On a planet that has more people than it can support, would solar energy conservation be our next evolutionary step?? Competition for THE ONE source (plants) that converts solar energy into ANIMAL FUEL, puts us at odds with the very animals we are raising for fuel. If we stoped raising animals and only sought out wild animals for food we would eat the planet barren in a decade or less! Soon our population on this planet will mean we have to starve to death to feed our livestock. A child of ten could see the math here doesn't add up! Resistance to evolve can mean only one thing...extinction! Which animal are you?
AND! MAL-ADAPTION??? Were you asleep in grade seven science when it was explained to us that humans, more than any other animal on this planet, adapts our environment out of necessity of survival! Do you live in a house or a mudhole? You want to discuss Mal-adaption? Then look at what your wearing or the materials used to fabricate your home and transportation mode. A grocery store is more mal-adaption of environment than a vegetable garden!
Are you going to walk around the rest of your short agonizing life with your eyes closed?
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Permalink Reply by Jay Crawford on
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Matt,
It dawned on me that my last response was not an answer to your questions. I should like to point out that I'm not some militant vegan enforcer! I don't hold anybodies choices against them...after all we ARE omnivores and what you choose to eat is just that...your choice. I have only recently chosen a vegan lifestyle because the plethora of health issues I had to correct. Anyone who has been told by their physician that their cholesterol is too high and they have excess pounds to shed for their health, knows why they've gotten there.
When I was trainning for strenght competitions, I ate POUNDS of meat daily. When that stopped I lost track and balooned, since then I've eaten what I thought should be a reasonably healthy diet based on the Canada Food Guide; lean cuts of meat and fish, 6-8 fruits and veggies...etc. I counted calories and supplemented with all the 'right' stuff and still couldn't get down to where I was told I should be as far as body composition goes. I bought a bike, hit the gym and tried all manner of 'diet secrets' and STILL wasn't getting anywhere. With decreasing energy levels and worse health I went for yet one more supplement: VEGA Whole Food Health Optimizer. Within weeks I noticed a marked improvement in my energy level so I ended up buying Brendans' book Thrive and it all made sense to me. So I thought I would give this raw whole food thing a try much to the surprise of all my friends and family!
In 3.5 months I have dropped 40 lbs, knocked ten points of my diastolic pressure (may loose the BP meds later this year) have totally corrected my blood sugar issues (I'll be off the meds for isulin resistance this june) and have freed myself from asthma medication (seems to have been cured). I just started the exercise program in March and am now working out twice daily plus a bike ride or rigorous walk. I used to be chronic insomniac now I sleep solid, my mind is clearer and I have more energy than when I was 20. I wake at the crack of dawn ready to rock and roll! Now I'm thinking I may look to compete in some strength challenges again because the gains I'm making at the gym are unhuman! Each week I'm adding % to my strentgth gains with NO soarness...astounding recovery!! My weight has platoed since the exercise program started but the change in my physique is noticable weekly...just tonight one of the guys at the pool asked if I'm 'on the juice'.....NO!
There are a few people that don't agree with a vegetarian lifestyle and are trying to convince others that what we have learned about heart disease and cancer are untrue and that a diet high in animal fats is beneficial. That would mean everything we have learned in science that last thousand years must be scrapped to suit a couple quacks!
My advice to you is give Thrive Nutrition and Thrive Fitness a read. If it sounds like it may benefit you, give it a whirl for a selected period of time...say 90 days. During that time continue reading more about health and fitness. If you get results then formulate your own program based on what you've learned. Everybody is different so when it comes right down to it, you have to experiment with yourself a bit to find what works best.
To health and longevity!
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Permalink Reply by darius sohei on
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there are quite a few context specific issues with your very religious attitudes towards food.
one being that a person cannot survive on their vegetable garden alone. it's not enough calories.
average life expectancy was 30 because life was physically dangerous and infant mortality was high. native peoples don't keel over from heart attacks or cancer in their 30's just because. there are no indigenous long term vegan or vegetarian tribes for a reason, probably the same reason they painted animals on cave walls instead of weeds and berries. hybridized fruits don't just grow all over for people to eat, well maybe they do nowadays, but that's relatively new in human history. our magnetism towards carbohydrates and sugar is a double edged sword. good when sugars were rare, bad when they're now overabundant.
and yes, overpopulation is an issue. healthy food shortages are an issue when considering long term sustenance on grains and agricultural mono-crops. if you choose to eat healthy grass fed animal products, there might not be enough for everyone to share with 6 billion people. luckily, many people will continue to eat grains and beans all day long, so no need to share. everyone can have their reality.
this isn't about veganism/vegetarianism versus omnivorousness. this is about a high quality diet that includes every food an individual person needs. like it or not, your emotional response is a different issue than what a natural healthy diet is. if a person lives in new england, where are they getting all these fruits and veggies from in the winter? it's a bit odd to be eating hybridized bananas from ecuador in a new england december.
regardless, a person has to experiment for themselves to experience what actually produces healthy results for them. even if a person does all their reading homework and listens to everyone's opinion, their body will be the final judge of health, not some scientific report or idealogical viewpoint.
many people, myself included, fully experimented in veganism, fruitarianism, etc. and came out the other side wiser and more self-aware. for example, factory farmed grain fed animal products are different from grass fed pasture raised animal products. that difference is obvious if you experiment with an open mind and listen to your own body.
also, fermented veggies are different than raw veggies along those same lines.
Matt G. the original poster, openly states he is a flexitarian, and seems somewhat pressured by his environment/relationships to change. this may not be healthy for him, as everyone is an individual and nature provides multiple pathways to health. his cravings are more than likely his body yelling at him for certain nutrients that are found in certain animal products. as long as he eats high quality foods from all 4 kingdoms: animal, plant, bacterial and fungal, and continues to learn and explore for himself without doing what other people tell him he's "supposed" to do, he'll get healthier.
hearing different ideas is necessary for confused people so that they have real options.
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Permalink Reply by Dan Donovan on
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Good point I am not a militant vegan enforcer either, I am against these atkin/caveman/raw gourmet/low carb type diets where you derive 70-80% from fats and protein. I would much rather see someone eat meat on a high carb/fueling type diet and have the energy they need to function to lose weight through diet and exercise instead of restricting their calorie intake and losing weight (which someone inevitably has to do with these other type of dieting schemes). I mean lose weight steadily over a few years if you have to, I mean by then you'll of had the self discipline to stay on that path.
Jay Crawford said:Matt,
It dawned on me that my last response was not an answer to your questions. I should like to point out that I'm not some militant vegan enforcer! I don't hold anybodies choices against them...after all we ARE omnivores and what you choose to eat is just that...your choice. I have only recently chosen a vegan lifestyle because the plethora of health issues I had to correct. Anyone who has been told by their physician that their cholesterol is too high and they have excess pounds to shed for their health, knows why they've gotten there.
When I was trainning for strenght competitions, I ate POUNDS of meat daily. When that stopped I lost track and balooned, since then I've eaten what I thought should be a reasonably healthy diet based on the Canada Food Guide; lean cuts of meat and fish, 6-8 fruits and veggies...etc. I counted calories and supplemented with all the 'right' stuff and still couldn't get down to where I was told I should be as far as body composition goes. I bought a bike, hit the gym and tried all manner of 'diet secrets' and STILL wasn't getting anywhere. With decreasing energy levels and worse health I went for yet one more supplement: VEGA Whole Food Health Optimizer. Within weeks I noticed a marked improvement in my energy level so I ended up buying Brendans' book Thrive and it all made sense to me. So I thought I would give this raw whole food thing a try much to the surprise of all my friends and family!
In 3.5 months I have dropped 40 lbs, knocked ten points of my diastolic pressure (may loose the BP meds later this year) have totally corrected my blood sugar issues (I'll be off the meds for isulin resistance this june) and have freed myself from asthma medication (seems to have been cured). I just started the exercise program in March and am now working out twice daily plus a bike ride or rigorous walk. I used to be chronic insomniac now I sleep solid, my mind is clearer and I have more energy than when I was 20. I wake at the crack of dawn ready to rock and roll! Now I'm thinking I may look to compete in some strength challenges again because the gains I'm making at the gym are unhuman! Each week I'm adding % to my strentgth gains with NO soarness...astounding recovery!! My weight has platoed since the exercise program started but the change in my physique is noticable weekly...just tonight one of the guys at the pool asked if I'm 'on the juice'.....NO!
There are a few people that don't agree with a vegetarian lifestyle and are trying to convince others that what we have learned about heart disease and cancer are untrue and that a diet high in animal fats is beneficial. That would mean everything we have learned in science that last thousand years must be scrapped to suit a couple quacks!
My advice to you is give Thrive Nutrition and Thrive Fitness a read. If it sounds like it may benefit you, give it a whirl for a selected period of time...say 90 days. During that time continue reading more about health and fitness. If you get results then formulate your own program based on what you've learned. Everybody is different so when it comes right down to it, you have to experiment with yourself a bit to find what works best.
To health and longevity!
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Permalink Reply by Matt G on
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This is a ton of information guys, I admit it will take a while to go through. Debates like these can be healthy, but I'm not against eating a certain way, I just know I've tried raw and it does not appeal to me. I am much happier eating a vegetarian/vegan diet and substituting a lean cut of beef/venison and a piece of fish now and then.
So let's say I was eating a healthy diet. How would I use the Vega products? Right now I am taking 30g (1 packet) of complete health food health optimizer for breakfast, usually a leftover vegan meal for lunch and then we cook a vegan meal for dinner. Meals generally include a ton of veggies, brown rice, and we try to include beans or other proteins (lentils) a few times a week. Am I using the Vega product correctly? Should I be using more than 1 packet? (8oz seems like very little) I purchased the packets because I didn't want to commit to the $80 bottle.
Also, I see that there is a sport product from Vega with a higher protein content. Does anyone use this in conjunction with the whole food health optimizer while working out?
Thanks for all of your comments thus far. I really appreciate it.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Crawford on
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Matt,
The Vega Whole Food Health Optimzer (WFHO) is desisned more like a complete 'meal', it's an all-in-one kind of supplement. The packets or snack packs are 1/2 a serving or 1 scoop for the bucket. Price per serving , the big tub is the way to go. Breakfast is a great time to use it. I put a whole serving with a banana and some frozen berries in the blender for my 'breakfast'. The Vega Sport performance protein is designed to be a protein supplement for post workout/activity recovery, simple short chain plant proteins and some BCAAs to get to the muscles quick; intended to prevent soarness.
Matt G said:This is a ton of information guys, I admit it will take a while to go through. Debates like these can be healthy, but I'm not against eating a certain way, I just know I've tried raw and it does not appeal to me. I am much happier eating a vegetarian/vegan diet and substituting a lean cut of beef/venison and a piece of fish now and then.
So let's say I was eating a healthy diet. How would I use the Vega products? Right now I am taking 30g (1 packet) of complete health food health optimizer for breakfast, usually a leftover vegan meal for lunch and then we cook a vegan meal for dinner. Meals generally include a ton of veggies, brown rice, and we try to include beans or other proteins (lentils) a few times a week. Am I using the Vega product correctly? Should I be using more than 1 packet? (8oz seems like very little) I purchased the packets because I didn't want to commit to the $80 bottle.
Also, I see that there is a sport product from Vega with a higher protein content. Does anyone use this in conjunction with the whole food health optimizer while working out?
Thanks for all of your comments thus far. I really appreciate it.
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