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Agave Nectar
I'm thinking about trying the Thrive diet, but am concerned about the heavy use of agave nectar because of a few articles i've read lately indicating that the 'nectar' is more like a 'syrup' and is very close to high fructose corn syrup.
any thoughts on this? possible substitutions?
thanks!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kyle Morgen Garrett on -
Your absolutely right. Agave syrup is not good for you. It is exactly that...a syrup. Same goes for 'brown rice syrup', which sounds healthy, but again is little more than a sweetener and source of simple sugar. One should never consume more than 100 calories in added (simple) sugar per day (25grams)...which isn't much. This includes your allowance for alchohol. So if you drink occasionally, you have even less room for sugars.
Avoid all syrups and sweeteners if you can (and this is definitely possible). You have a little bit more flexibility here the more active you are.
My answer is..Why do you even need a substitute? These sugars are essentially poison for you unless they come in a whole fruit/grain/vegetable.
If you really feel you need something, use Stevia, which for the moment appears to be safe. It may also be worth pointing out, that even zero calorie sweetners like stevia can stimulate an insulin response because you (and all humans) have been conditioned to release insulin in the presence of anything that tastes sweet.
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Permalink Reply by Kelly Cree on -
hey kyle, thanks for the reply!
the reason i ask about a substitute is because many of brendan's recipes (the milks, etc) call for agave nectar.
i thought about trying the diet without eating any of the recipes that call for it, but it seems that many of them do.
any thoughts?
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Permalink Reply by Kyle Morgen Garrett on
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Again,
I would try to avoid the use of the sweeteners. Try making nut or hemp seed milks...or whatever type of milk you choose without a sweetener. You will probably find it tastes just fine.
I think Brendan included sweeteners in those recipes to make them more appealing to his readers. I would be quite surprised if he uses these syrups all the time. Then again, he came up with these recipes with an 'endurance athlete mindset', having been an endurance athlete he would definitely be able to get away with more in terms of simple sugar than the average person. Endurance athletes probably have some of the highest carbohydrate demands of any athletes out there. In other words, what worked for Brendan, might not work for you.
If you REAAAAALLLY need sweet things in your life. Excersize more. Simple as that.
Kelly Cree said:hey kyle, thanks for the reply!
the reason i ask about a substitute is because many of brendan's recipes (the milks, etc) call for agave nectar.
i thought about trying the diet without eating any of the recipes that call for it, but it seems that many of them do.
any thoughts?
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Permalink Reply by Jay Crawford on -
Gotta watch this westonaprice.org group! This is a web site dedicated to health through high fat high cholesterol diets. They claim to have proved everybody is wrong about LDL cholesterol and its relationship to heart disease. I agree with the article that heating starch to break it down just produces sugar and yes it has been proven that high fructose corn syrop is not the answer we thought it was a decade ago. They found a study that says agave syrop is just the same as corn syrop... the study was based on one product made by a manufacturer that was using poor manufacturing techniques and was caught adding corn syrop to its product for higher profits and they want to use this as argument that all agave nectar manufacturers are the same! You'll note the study was funded by the american sugar council! Never believe an article until you've read the source material for yourself. This is the third article of theirs I scrutinized and can't find half the materials they reference. And some of it they misconstrue to fit their 'angle'.
OK I had to get that out!
I have followed the Thrive diet strictly for seven weeks and have just used 250ml of agave nectar...thats less than a teaspoon a day. I use slightly less than Brendans' recipes ask for because i'm trying to trim up. So roughly 40 calories daily in the big picture is not alot. There are some respectable Agave nectars on the market. I found one by Wholesome Sweeteners that has a "raw" variety that uses enzimatic action to break the heavy starches found in Agave stalk into glucose and fructose... just like fuits and veggies. These two simple sugars will go straight to the cells to be burned quickly.
If we're worried about sugar there is more sugar in a naval Orange than a tablespoon of agave!
Do try the Thrive diet! You'll be glad you did! Don't let alarmist propaganda scare you.
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Permalink Reply by Nikki Sabella on -
I'm sure glad that Jay wrote that last comment. I have/had the same concern about agave nectar. There are some articles floating around out there that label it no better than high fructose corn syrup. But I do think it might be propaganda. It's probably made by the same people who put out that commercial saying that high fructose corn syrup is not so bad for you afterall...
I think that if so many raw foodist swear by it, it can't be all that bad. I mean, these people are suppppeerrr healthy! Plus, if you think about it, cutting out white refined sugars completely has got to be a great step in itself. Skimping out on the stuff that's safely sweet, agave nectar or brown rice syrup, just makes me sad.
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Permalink Reply by Rachel Cherie on -
yes Nikki, I am VERY Glad JAY posted that. I LOVE Agave because I am very Active and Need to Have Easily Accessible Carbs to Burn.
Jay, in your response u say u use not even 1 tsp per day. thats minimal yes. I try not to go over 1TBsp just because I usualy don't feel I need anymore than that. I use it for Recovery Post-Workout to mix with Brewer's Yeast + h20/FruitJuice -- needs Agave sweetness for that yeast.
I use the Same brand / kind of Agave. Why do it at all if its not RAW???
Good Natural Substitute for Sports Drink that are supposed to give you Energy from Carbs.
"""""less than a teaspoon a day. So roughly 40 calories daily in the big picture is not alot. I found one by Wholesome Sweeteners that has a "raw" variety that uses enzimatic action to break the heavy starches found in Agave stalk into glucose and fructose... just like fuits and veggies. These two simple sugars will go straight to the cells to be burned quickly.""""
Jay Crawford said:Gotta watch this westonaprice.org group! This is a web site dedicated to health through high fat high cholesterol diets. They claim to have proved everybody is wrong about LDL cholesterol and its relationship to heart disease. I agree with the article that heating starch to break it down just produces sugar and yes it has been proven that high fructose corn syrop is not the answer we thought it was a decade ago. They found a study that says agave syrop is just the same as corn syrop... the study was based on one product made by a manufacturer that was using poor manufacturing techniques and was caught adding corn syrop to its product for higher profits and they want to use this as argument that all agave nectar manufacturers are the same! You'll note the study was funded by the american sugar council! Never believe an article until you've read the source material for yourself. This is the third article of theirs I scrutinized and can't find half the materials they reference. And some of it they misconstrue to fit their 'angle'.
OK I had to get that out!
I have followed the Thrive diet strictly for seven weeks and have just used 250ml of agave nectar...thats less than a teaspoon a day. I use slightly less than Brendans' recipes ask for because i'm trying to trim up. So roughly 40 calories daily in the big picture is not alot. There are some respectable Agave nectars on the market. I found one by Wholesome Sweeteners that has a "raw" variety that uses enzimatic action to break the heavy starches found in Agave stalk into glucose and fructose... just like fuits and veggies. These two simple sugars will go straight to the cells to be burned quickly.
If we're worried about sugar there is more sugar in a naval Orange than a tablespoon of agave!
Do try the Thrive diet! You'll be glad you did! Don't let alarmist propaganda scare you.
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Permalink Reply by Kelly Cree on
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thank you so much, jay, for the reply! i'm embarrassed to admit i didn't even check the sources, just assumed since it was heavily cited that it was legit. d'oh! had no idea it was sponsored by sugar :/
i made some thrive burgers last night and used some. it was pretty good!
thanks again to everyone for the replies :D
Jay Crawford said:Gotta watch this westonaprice.org group! This is a web site dedicated to health through high fat high cholesterol diets. They claim to have proved everybody is wrong about LDL cholesterol and its relationship to heart disease. I agree with the article that heating starch to break it down just produces sugar and yes it has been proven that high fructose corn syrop is not the answer we thought it was a decade ago. They found a study that says agave syrop is just the same as corn syrop... the study was based on one product made by a manufacturer that was using poor manufacturing techniques and was caught adding corn syrop to its product for higher profits and they want to use this as argument that all agave nectar manufacturers are the same! You'll note the study was funded by the american sugar council! Never believe an article until you've read the source material for yourself. This is the third article of theirs I scrutinized and can't find half the materials they reference. And some of it they misconstrue to fit their 'angle'.
OK I had to get that out!
I have followed the Thrive diet strictly for seven weeks and have just used 250ml of agave nectar...thats less than a teaspoon a day. I use slightly less than Brendans' recipes ask for because i'm trying to trim up. So roughly 40 calories daily in the big picture is not alot. There are some respectable Agave nectars on the market. I found one by Wholesome Sweeteners that has a "raw" variety that uses enzimatic action to break the heavy starches found in Agave stalk into glucose and fructose... just like fuits and veggies. These two simple sugars will go straight to the cells to be burned quickly.
If we're worried about sugar there is more sugar in a naval Orange than a tablespoon of agave!
Do try the Thrive diet! You'll be glad you did! Don't let alarmist propaganda scare you.
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Permalink Reply by Frances Worster on -
I'm SO happy that this is being addressed! I occasionally use agave, but also use alternatives too - like stevia. Dates are another GREAT option if you are making something that you are going to blend (sauces, milks, etc.)
Kelly Cree said:thank you so much, jay, for the reply! i'm embarrassed to admit i didn't even check the sources, just assumed since it was heavily cited that it was legit. d'oh! had no idea it was sponsored by sugar :/
i made some thrive burgers last night and used some. it was pretty good!
thanks again to everyone for the replies :D
Jay Crawford said:Gotta watch this westonaprice.org group! This is a web site dedicated to health through high fat high cholesterol diets. They claim to have proved everybody is wrong about LDL cholesterol and its relationship to heart disease. I agree with the article that heating starch to break it down just produces sugar and yes it has been proven that high fructose corn syrop is not the answer we thought it was a decade ago. They found a study that says agave syrop is just the same as corn syrop... the study was based on one product made by a manufacturer that was using poor manufacturing techniques and was caught adding corn syrop to its product for higher profits and they want to use this as argument that all agave nectar manufacturers are the same! You'll note the study was funded by the american sugar council! Never believe an article until you've read the source material for yourself. This is the third article of theirs I scrutinized and can't find half the materials they reference. And some of it they misconstrue to fit their 'angle'.
OK I had to get that out!
I have followed the Thrive diet strictly for seven weeks and have just used 250ml of agave nectar...thats less than a teaspoon a day. I use slightly less than Brendans' recipes ask for because i'm trying to trim up. So roughly 40 calories daily in the big picture is not alot. There are some respectable Agave nectars on the market. I found one by Wholesome Sweeteners that has a "raw" variety that uses enzimatic action to break the heavy starches found in Agave stalk into glucose and fructose... just like fuits and veggies. These two simple sugars will go straight to the cells to be burned quickly.
If we're worried about sugar there is more sugar in a naval Orange than a tablespoon of agave!
Do try the Thrive diet! You'll be glad you did! Don't let alarmist propaganda scare you.
-
Permalink Reply by Laura on -
Kelly
I totally agree with Jay Crowford's post. Agave doesn't spike blood sugar as much as conventional sugars (for this reason it is better than regular sugars for diabetics, but it does still raise blood sugar). It is also much sweeter so you need to use less agave than you would use regular sweeteners to get the same level of sweetness.
Agave is still a processed food. Eating whole plant foods - in their natural unrefined form - is best (I haven't tried to chew on an agave cactus leaf, yet). I think Kyle was dead on when he said "I think Brendan included sweeteners in those recipes to make them more appealing to his readers." I use agave often when I am introducing people to raw whole plant based foods. If you have been eating regular processed foods your taste buds get kind of numb from the high doses of refined sugar, salt and fat. Once you go a few months without them, your taste bubs will 'wake up' and you wont need such high doses to taste the sweetness.
Agave is very convenient to use, but there are alternatives.
Dates - I buy dates in bulk and kept them in the fridge. Medjool are my favorite. Medjools are very soft if they are fresh. Some other kinds are harder. Deglet are cheaper than medjools and have a wonderful super sweet flavour, but they are very hard. To make them easier to blend, put some in a mason jar, cover with water to soak for a few hours. You can leave them in the fridge soaking for up to a few days until you need them. You can use the soak water, too. I have a Vita-mix so I don't need to soak them.
Raisins - They have a very strong flavor, but you might find their flavor goes well in many recipes. You can soak them, too.
Coconut Sugar - a good alternative for when you need a powdered sugar. I get mine from my local raw food store, The Light Cellar.
Lucuma powder - it's not as sweet as a refined sugar, but has such a wonderful flavor you won't even miss the sweetness.
Yacon syrup - it's also low glycemic. It is expensive but it is concentrated so you only need a bit.
Kyle mentioned stevia. It is healthiest in it's green powdered form. It's not actually a kind of sugar, it's a leaf that tastes sweet. Some people find it takes a bit to get used to the flavor.
Leaving the sweetener out - it's nice to have a date in certain nut mylks, but some nuts are so good on their own they just don't need any sweetness. Give it a try before you add a sweetener.
The most important question is - if you are not using agave, what would you be using? If you are using any type of conventional sugar, then using agave would be much better. If you don't need any sweetener at all, then great! I wouldn't use agave thinking it was good for me - whole plant foods in their natural state are best. I wouldn't use agave as a source of calories, again, there are plenty of calories in unrefined foods that are much healthier then agave. I would use agave if I feel that I need to sweeten something.
Personally, I use agave when it's convenient, but since it's a processed food I do try not to use too much of it. I use dates most of the time, and occasionally coconut sugar, yacon syrup, raisins, and stevia.
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Permalink Reply by Vega Kelly on -
This is why I love the community here! These are some great suggestions. Thank you!
Laura said:Kelly
I totally agree with Jay Crowford's post. Agave doesn't spike blood sugar as much as conventional sugars (for this reason it is better than regular sugars for diabetics, but it does still raise blood sugar). It is also much sweeter so you need to use less agave than you would use regular sweeteners to get the same level of sweetness.
Agave is still a processed food. Eating whole plant foods - in their natural unrefined form - is best (I haven't tried to chew on an agave cactus leaf, yet). I think Kyle was dead on when he said "I think Brendan included sweeteners in those recipes to make them more appealing to his readers." I use agave often when I am introducing people to raw whole plant based foods. If you have been eating regular processed foods your taste buds get kind of numb from the high doses of refined sugar, salt and fat. Once you go a few months without them, your taste bubs will 'wake up' and you wont need such high doses to taste the sweetness.
Agave is very convenient to use, but there are alternatives.
Dates - I buy dates in bulk and kept them in the fridge. Medjool are my favorite. Medjools are very soft if they are fresh. Some other kinds are harder. Deglet are cheaper than medjools and have a wonderful super sweet flavour, but they are very hard. To make them easier to blend, put some in a mason jar, cover with water to soak for a few hours. You can leave them in the fridge soaking for up to a few days until you need them. You can use the soak water, too. I have a Vita-mix so I don't need to soak them.
Raisins - They have a very strong flavor, but you might find their flavor goes well in many recipes. You can soak them, too.
Coconut Sugar - a good alternative for when you need a powdered sugar. I get mine from my local raw food store, The Light Cellar.
Lucuma powder - it's not as sweet as a refined sugar, but has such a wonderful flavor you won't even miss the sweetness.
Yacon syrup - it's also low glycemic. It is expensive but it is concentrated so you only need a bit.
Kyle mentioned stevia. It is healthiest in it's green powdered form. It's not actually a kind of sugar, it's a leaf that tastes sweet. Some people find it takes a bit to get used to the flavor.
Leaving the sweetener out - it's nice to have a date in certain nut mylks, but some nuts are so good on their own they just don't need any sweetness. Give it a try before you add a sweetener.
The most important question is - if you are not using agave, what would you be using? If you are using any type of conventional sugar, then using agave would be much better. If you don't need any sweetener at all, then great! I wouldn't use agave thinking it was good for me - whole plant foods in their natural state are best. I wouldn't use agave as a source of calories, again, there are plenty of calories in unrefined foods that are much healthier then agave. I would use agave if I feel that I need to sweeten something.
Personally, I use agave when it's convenient, but since it's a processed food I do try not to use too much of it. I use dates most of the time, and occasionally coconut sugar, yacon syrup, raisins, and stevia.
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Permalink Reply by Kelly Cree on
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wow, thank you to everyone for your replies! everyone's input has been immensely helpful.
i had no idea this community was so active. i can't wait to get more involved.
Laura, your reply really helped a lot with ideas for substitutions. I can't wait to try them!
thank you again to everyone for your help!
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Permalink Reply by Aubrie Rose on -
I have read similar articles and would say that if you are concerned, then your best bet is to use a natural cane sugar, maple syrup, raw or dried dates, grapes, raw carrot or apple juice, dried unsulphured pineapple or molasses. If you use honey then look for a high-grade, organic Mankua honey as a sweetener. Also be aware that everything besides DARK LEAFY GREENS and Animal-Based Meat breaks down into sugar. No kidding! If that is the case, then you can get sweetness from just about anything- but not always the high levels of it that you might be craving.
When you make your nut or seed milk, try adding licorice root to it as a sweetener. It is absolutely DELICIOUS, and is very natural and should not cause problems when it comes to high insulin levels. Also remember to read many sources and look for other sweeteners - I know that there is one made from, if my recollection is correct: pineapple, pear, apple, and something else. This may be a better sweetener for you. :)
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